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Getting Off & On the Record by Kirk West |
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Chris Robinson has always had something to say. For the past 15 years, he's had a stage to say it from, and he has used it often - often well and sometimes not too wisely, but he has always spoken his mind. The Black Crowes have stopped soaring, so Chris is a bit more down to earth - but no less fearless - as he travels this magnificent distance through life. Hittin' the Note: I really like this record a lot, man. There is some material on here that is some pretty solid shit. Chris Robinson: Yeah, I'm pretty happy with it, man. I wanted to really get into something serious, and the weird thing is that the last record took twice as long to make, and sounds real intimate and small. I'm not sure how it took a month to make something sound like it was made in a day, you know what I mean? [Laughs] Then in a day, we made something that sounds really dynamic. With This Magnificent Distance, I started building the songs in my imagination, and we did spend three weeks in Aspen putting it all together - kind of like a blueprint for what we were going to do. I had a fairly good picture and concept of what I wanted it to sound like, how I wanted it to feel, how I wanted it to look - all of those things. When you write with someone, what is the dynamic? Do you write the lyrics and your partner writes the music, or is it a shared experience? For this album, I would come in with the whole song - I would come in with the lyrics, the verses, the choruses, I'm pretty much ready to go. What I need sometimes would be a bridge section or a segue. With "Girl on the Mountain" and "At the Dark End of Night," they are longer songs, so I wanted to have songs within a song. For "Girl on the Mountain," I wrote the intro, the verse, and the chorus, while Paul Stacey wrote the part of the bridge that I sing over. I wanted to stay open to those kinds of things, and I'd been working with Paul for a few years, so we were in a comfortable zone. Well, you and Audley Freed have played together, so there is probably a comfort zone there as well. Yea and no, because if you want to get down to it, the dynamics are completely different than what would be going on in the Black Crowes. This group is new and different, and part of my thing is saying, "O.K. - I want to put this band together," so I write these songs, we learn certain cover tunes, and I want us to have a balance to our sound. I do think the jamband scene can be repetitive, and I believe that, along the way, people have forgotten that bands like the Allman Brothers and the Grateful Dead at a certain time were rock and roll bands on the same level as the Rolling Stones or Led Zeppelin or whoever was coming out. In those terms, it's important to me to present something that integrates all my interests. I am a singer/songwriter, so I am going to have a certain number of those songs. I love psychedelic country-rock, so we're going to play some old Waylon and Merle, some Burrito Brothers - that kind of thing. On the other hand, I want to be able to freely improvise and get into the other persona, the other part of the sound, which is jazz, funk, and R&B, and I think we were able to bring those qualities and nuances to This Magnificent Distance. To me, this record feels like a 35-year-old record that is talking about things that are timeless - I mean, life experiences aren't any different today than they were then, or 100 years ago. Singers of songs are singing the same songs - they are all about the same emotions and experiences that we all have. To me, that is a time machine. It's a line straight to where we're going to be a million years from now, and a line straight to where we were a million years ago. When you open your mouth to sing, and when you make music, you're part of that continuum. I think the reason people like the late-'60s and early-'70s era of rock and roll, and why it lasts, is because people identify with rock and roll music that was made without all these rules and concessions. It's not about the nostalgia of people who remember those times, because there are kids turning on to that music all the time. That's why my record sounds the way it does, because I don't care about the music business, and I don't care about what everybody else is doing. I don't care about keeping up with the fucking Joneses - I care about the songs that I am writing and the records that I am making and the tours that I am doing. The work is what it's all about. At the end of the day, I care about having that musical dialogue with people, as I'm going through my trip and they are going through theirs. When you listen to the album, it's not just nostalgia, like you said, there is a comfort to it, because there is a truth to things. For instance, "Surgical Glove" - it is a very deep look at someone you care about. In a way, that song is about everyone I know, man. It's what real life is about out there. It's funny, because I wrote those lyrics in about five minutes. I had written music while I was on the road with the Mule, and then I came home and worked it up in the studio. The weird thing is, I didn't really have a lyric to it. Actually, I did have one lyric, and it's the only lyric that's not in the song, and that is where the title comes from. It was, "You're an ambulance ride, you're a surgical glove." Then I wrote this other set of lyrics that for whatever reason, touched me more, but I decided to keep calling it "Surgical Glove." It's like that Little Feat song that says, "Those rock and roll hours, early graves without flowers." When I listened to the album, I came away with a sense of time and distance - there is a sense of space in your songs. The title is perfect - This Magnificent Distance - because that is what you do. There is always movement in your songs - that is what I get from you. For example, there are road songs that you write that don't talk about being on the road. You know what's funny? Like you said, you know what the songs are all about, and why you feel movement, and this continuum of time and things. Honestly, the whole exercise, in a sense, of being present and living in the now is to stay in that flow. The flow is that movement - that's where that feeling comes from. Within the flow of this time that we're living in together, all you have to do is be available to feel it, and you will be humbly rewarded with the weird things like poetry, love, and music - if that is where your soul is going, man. I've found in the last few years that if it feels soulful to me, than that is going to come across in my music. It was weird - a few years ago, writing lyrics to me was always the easiest part of being a musician - and it was the one thing that people could care less about! [Laughs] But for people who are into it, the whole dimension of what you could create with your language has always been such a big part of things. In the last couple of years, I really feel that these ideas have dropped out of the sky in big bundles, and I just picked them up and took them home. I don't question it - that's my archaic response to gifts from the cosmos - don't question it. Do you like California? I like the mythology of California - there is something about it. I can't say that I'm singing about Los Angles or Hollywood - I'm singing about Joshua Tree and Big Sur and San Francisco. I was lucky enough to be out in Malibu for a few years, and it really got a hold of me. The thing is, the world is putting the screws to you, man, and you have to find your inner freedom and you have to find your place to believe. Disbelievers are easier to control than believers. With disbelief in things comes apathy, so I think there are still some true believers out there, but I know there are true believers in California. It has nothing to do with who the fucking governor is - it's been that special place long before we started dividing things up and every street had a name. It's that part of California that I'm drawn to. The song "?If You See California" reminded me of a love song to Kate. Again, I thought it would be interesting to have a song that makes people think, "Is it about a place, or a person?" Is it about a spirit, which encompasses my wife, who I really think of as a Californian. She is a woman of something much greater than one place, but there is always going to be this side of her that I'm going to see as this chick running around Topanga Canyon when she was a teenager. The whole part of the verse, "If you see California," means you have to find things, because I think anything of any true wisdom is something that you have to go find. You have to go seek out the true masters, because they are not soliciting for your commerce. I had a friend call me the other day who had listened to the record, and his head was all into "The Never Empty Table." He was all freaked out - he told me, "Instead of saying ‘My table's always full,' you're saying that your table's never empty." I'm like, "Yeah man. Some of us fucking believe that there are other ways to do things other than the way we're being told, and the way that people are buying and selling it." Let's get away from the music for a bit. Talk to me about your take on life right now, because this country is in deep trouble, the deepest trouble we've had in 30 or 40 years. O.K., let's talk about the truth concerning what's happening right now. You take an event that we all watched - like 9/11 - we all saw it go down, and we all know who died. It was a horrible thing for human beings to have to witness. We also joined the rest of the world in a big, violent club. My point about America and what's happening here - what's happening with people's consciousness and their education, and how they're going to look - this isn't about fucking politics, man. Politics is just fucking double-talk, with the same people staying in charge forever, and everybody else can work for them. What I'm talking about is people - the day after they knocked down the World Trade Centers, you know what America did? People in Topeka, Kansas battened down the hatches - everybody though the end of the world was coming. Everybody went back to their caves and built a fire, and families huddled together while the storm blew past. In Spain, a country that has been ravaged by fascist dictators and went through wars for a 100 years - all these traumatic events for the last four or five centuries - the same type of event befalls them during their rush hour. Not as many people, not as spectacular, maybe not as captured for all of us to be traumatized by it, but what happens the next morning? Two million people are on the streets in Madrid, and that's all I have to say about the United States. Anybody who wants to talk about this war, anybody who wants to talk about this administration or this election - that's all I have to say, man. People say that George Bush goes on TV to talk about North Korea and how isolated they are - look at us, man! We can't even love ourselves. You have all these kids on fucking Lithium and Prozac, and you have all this music that is just about hate - how it's somebody else's fault, and how I can't take what you're doing to me anymore - what is that? You know what that is? That is fear, and what I'm interested in is freedom. I'm not talking about the freedom to consume; I'm not talking about the freedom to have people validate themselves through materialism. I'm not saying that you can't be ambitious, I'm not saying that I'm against capitalism, but there definitely should be some sort of ethical decision-making process with those things in mind. Ideally, you can look at rock and roll, and it's obvious that these things are going to affect what's going on in the music. Most bands today are just happy to take their paycheck. See, that was the difference 35 years ago, 40 years ago. The people who made the music, and the people who bought the music, who listened to the music, who followed the music - they really felt they had the ability to impact and change things in society - and they did. People now are kind of used to being catered to, because the lowest common denominator dictates that you behave a certain way - you water down everything that you really are, and you present yourself in a very comfortable and acceptable fashion. The thing is, the true nature of getting into these ideas and emotions is to be provocative, and that's interesting. There are many ways to do it; for me, it was to be in a fucking rock and roll band. There's my sculpture, there's my painting, there's my revolution, man. It's integrated into the rest of my life, and my family and my love and respect, my ups and my downs, and everything else. Music is fully integrated into my experience with all other human beings. Is it important that people hear what you're saying, or is it more important that you say it? I think it's more important that I'm doing it. The other day, someone said, "Man, I wish this record was so big," and I was like, "Yeah, but you know what? That doesn't really matter." Granted, if this was a big album, then I would look at it as a real turning point for music. Unlike a lot of other bands, I would take a little bit more responsibility and try to hip my fucking audience to some of the ideas, some of the literature available, some of the things that are going on. I'd do that, as opposed to you pay for your ticket, you pay for the show, and I played exactly what you wanted to hear, the way you wanted to hear it. Now buy a T-shirt and a hat, and I'll see you later. On the other hand, if that doesn't happen, it doesn't change any of my perspective on the amount of energy that I'm going to put into my work and the things that I believe in. On one level, I've already superceded any of my expectations. What were the chances that I would be as successful as I have been in this business? I mean, when Money Maker came out, it wasn't like rock and roll was in vogue, you know? It seems that what you've always tried to do is just speak your mind, of saying it how it is. You've got a stage - whether it's 18 inches or 18 feet - and there are people looking and listening. I think that you have done it from your conscience - not for the effect, not for the dollar - you have spoken from your heart. If it sells, then more power to it, but that is not the point. You don't hedge your bets on your principle. Well it's funny, man, because where do we go from this fucking place? I'll tell you where we go - we go to a bunch of kids right now who are going to be disenfranchised with this status-seeking, fucking corporate dribble that's happening right now. All this fucking no-name, no-talent, no imagination, no initiative, no courage bullshit that's out there right now. We need courage, man - my mantra lately has been "Love is not for cowards. If you don't have it, you're not invited." It's gonna get ugly, man, so we need to enjoy the glimpses of heaven when we get them, but in between those glimpses, the shit can get fucking ugly. You better have some fortitude and courage in your heart and your soul to weather the storm and stay in the flow, man. How can a 22-year-old who comes to see you or the Mule or the Allmans do that? Well, he believes in the feeling that he gets from the music. He believes in where the idea starts, and that it goes on forever. It is our responsibility when we play music for people who don't get to live like this everyday to make sure that the venue becomes a multi-dimensional headspace and bodyspace for everyone to just let go for two hours. It needs to be a place where we can have this kinetic relationship and dialogue that exists outside of the media, outside of the record stores, and outside of the Internet. It's happening because we want it to happen, and we've all made a decision to be there. It's part of a living tradition that has gone on way before rock and roll music, and will go well after whatever rock and roll ends up becoming. Now, back to the 22-year-old - over the last couple of years, not being in the Crowes I've been back on more of a street level scene, and being on college campuses, I am shocked at the lack of dissident voice, at the lack of fucking counter-culture representation - it blows me away, man. It's not just taking Ecstasy and listening to jambands - that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about getting down to some fucking ideas, man, some heavy times - heavy times. To have those intimate moments and conversations, you know? No one wants to get heavy anymore, man - but I think part of that is young people don't know what's really going on in America. They keep us with blinders on, more than ever before, so the kids just aren't aware. About two years ago, I lived in France for three months, and you know what I saw on the fucking news everyday? The bodies piled up fucking six feet high along the sides of the roads in Afghanistan. The average Afghani had nothing to do with 9/11. You know what they were trying to do? Find a fucking handful of rice and a potato to put in a fucking pot. All we did was destroy a Third World nation that has been ravaged by fucking powers like us that have been tearing through there since Alexander the Great. Within six months of 9/11, we had the whole world against us, and it was like we had this amazing moment? Where we could have maybe really healed some things, but the people who we supposedly voted into office failed us. What is their agenda? Their real agenda? The thing is, no one looks around and says, "You know what? I don't want to take this anymore. Let's all fucking pool our money together, we'll move into a fucking house, and we'll try to find an alternate way of living within this fucking society that they have fucking stuck us with." Now, this has nothing to do with the '60s, it has nothing to do with the '70s - this kind of shit has been going on forever. You can go back to 16th Century England, and there were groups of people who lived outside of - and within - the weird confines of whatever society structure that they were given. It has always gone on, but now the one great thing that our media has done is that they have removed it from our consciousness. You don't have to stand for anything anymore. That is why people are so interested in celebrities today - who gives a fuck? It's boring, and it debases people who really have something to say. That is where we are today, but with awareness, I still think it can change. How do you combat living in a sound-bite culture? I don't give 'em - how do you like that? [Laughs] There's a fucking sound bite for ya - I don't give 'em! [Laughs] Hey, trust me, man - when I'm in pictures with Kate, rest assured that's the one thing I really like about it. I know some freak waiting in a dentist office is going through People magazine, and he can look at a picture of Chris Robinson and say, "All right man - at least there is one last freak representing for all the freaks in the world, on the pages of People magazine." [Laughs] God bless you - you're taking one for the team! I can just picture the dude going, "Hey - I knew there was at least one left!" [Laughs] So are you going to vote? No. See, the other part of where my head is at is that I don't know what is real and what isn't anymore. I'm not being an ultra-weird conspiracy theorist or anything like that - I have my suspicions. To be honest, I don't feel like choosing between two puppets, so I've some of that flowing in me as well. Again, at the end of the day, I have to feel that, as an artist, I'm not involved in politics - I'm involved in something else. Then how are you going to change things? My point is that I can change things by the vibrations I'm putting out. For example - everybody sells their songs to these corporations now. Bob Dylan is in a goddamn Victoria's Secret commercial. My hero is in a fucking commercial for Victoria's Secret. I have this dialogue with myself, because we all have to make money, man. I get these faxes and these proposals to use some Black Crowes' song for some product, and I just can't do it. I just can't get onboard with that. Here is my dilemma - does anyone else really care? I could just say, "Fuck it - no one else fucking cares, I'll take the money," but you know what? I just don't feel comfortable with the whole corporate thing. I feel that my responsibility as an artist does not include having my songs sell products for other people. So in terms of my politics, I'm the same way - I'm unaffiliated. That's just my thing - like I said, changing your perspective is what it's all about. If you change your perspective, if you can get into the right vibration, and have those things around you - that is how I can make a difference. It's like that scene in Midnight Express where the kid gets busted, and they put everyone in a weird room and make them walk around in one direction, so he tries to go the opposite way - that's what it's all about. I want to go about the shit the way I choose to go about it, because if there is some fucking 17-year-old kid who wants to start a band, and he thinks that it can't be done any other way - that you have to sell out and you have to be this or that - well, I'm still here, dude. When it's all said and done, not only am I still here, I'm making the most powerful music of my career - not being egotistical, but at least for me, it's the most satisfied I've been. Without a doubt, this is the most unified and level-one music that you've made. From start to finish, this is a record of remarkable songs. I'm not blowing smoke up your ass - this is your best album. To me, it's like when people used to buy a new record and you'd invite your friends over. You'd get stoned and have a couple of beers, then you put it on, listen to one side, and then you'd talk about it. Then listen to the other side, smoke some more, and listen to it three times in one night. It would be like, "What's going on with this band? What about this song? Do you like it?" Music was a dogma-free, political-free place to have a fucking conversation about how you feel. That's what this is all about - talk about your feelings, because they don't want feelings. Without feelings, without emotional content, you're easier to control. When you're in a group of people and you break it down, you realize, "Hey - we all feel scared sometimes." It's happening, man - you just have to be available for it. Chris, thank you for making yourself available to us, being so open, and sharing so much. Man, this has been a great conversation, and hopefully people can dig through it, figure out what it all means to them, and maybe it will strike a chord within them. If that happens, more power to 'em. 
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